balak kong basahin yung mga libro ni Dawkins next pag may free time ako. ngayon nanonood ako ng mga anti-bible videos sa youtube pero walang convincing for me.
about sa death penalty, wala akong maalala sa bible na tinuro ng Dyos na ok lang pumatay ng tao depende sa situation. i may be wrong, magre-research pa ako yung Diyos pumatay for the better good pero hindi pwedeng tawaging murder yun kasi sya naman ang may ari ng buhay. binawi nya lang ang buhay na binigay nya. kung ako tatanungin pabor ako sa death penalty :flamedevil: :flamedevil:
meron bang evolutionist dito? totoo ba na ang natural selection ay "discards the bad then keeps the goods"?
what's your religion?
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i wouldn't put it exactly like that pero somewhat. natural selection favors characteristics that are beneficial to the species or race.VincH wrote:meron bang evolutionist dito? totoo ba na ang natural selection ay "discards the bad then keeps the goods"?
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death penalty from the bible
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/says_ ... oning.html
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/says_ ... oning.html
For touching Mount Sinai
Whosoever toucheth the mount shall be surely put to death. Exodus 19:13
For taking "accursed things"
Achan ... took of the accursed thing. ... And all Israel stoned him with stones, and burned them with fire, after they had stoned them with stones. ... So the LORD turned from the fierceness of his anger. Joshua 7:1-26
For cursing or blaspheming
And he that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him. Leviticus 24:16
For adultery (including urban rape victims who fail to scream loud enough)
If a damsel that is a virgin be betrothed unto an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her; Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city. Deuteronomy 22:23-24
For animals (like an ox that gores a human)
If an ox gore a man or a woman, that they die: then the ox shall be surely stoned. Exodus 21:28
For a woman who is not a virgin on her wedding night
If any man take a wife, and go in unto her, and hate her ... and say, I took this woman, and when I came to her, I found her not a maid: Then shall the father of the damsel, and her mother, take and bring forth the tokens of the damsel's virginity unto the elders of the city in the gate: And the damsel's father shall say ... these are the tokens of my daughter's virginity. And they shall spread the cloth before the elders of the city. ... But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel: Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die. Deuteronomy 22:13-21
For worshipping other gods
If there be found among you ... that ... hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them ... Then shalt thou ... tone them with stones, till they die. Deuteronomy 17:2-5
If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers ... thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die. Deuteronomy 13:5-10
For disobeying parents
If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother ... Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city ... And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die. Deuteronomy 21:18-21
For witches and wizards
A man also or woman that hath a familiar spirit, or that is a wizard, shall surely be put to death: they shall stone them with stones: their blood shall be upon them. Leviticus 20:27
For giving your children to Molech
Whosoever ... giveth any of his seed unto Molech; he shall surely be put to death: the people of the land shall stone him with stones. Leviticus 20:2
For breaking the Sabbath
They found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day. ... And the LORD said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones.... And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the LORD commanded Moses. Numbers 15:32-56
For cursing the king
Thou didst blaspheme God and the king. And then carry him out, and stone him, that he may die. 1 Kings 21:10
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- kirsh_natural
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^ nice find. I remember watching Family Guy with Stewie reading the Bible and saying how "deliciously violent" this God is.
I have a question for believers: When reading the Bible, how do you know which ones are written figuratively or literally? Which ones are "dated" or "eternal"?
I have a question for believers: When reading the Bible, how do you know which ones are written figuratively or literally? Which ones are "dated" or "eternal"?
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for dated the new testament is followed.
example:
in OT eating pork is forbidden.
"And the swine, because it divideth the hoof, yet cheweth not the cud, it is unclean unto you: ye shall not eat of their flesh, nor touch their dead carcase." - Deuteronomy 14:8
but in the NT
Acts 10:9-16
9 About noon the following day as they were on their journey and approaching the city, Peter went up on the roof to pray. 10 He became hungry and wanted something to eat, and while the meal was being prepared, he fell into a trance. 11 He saw heaven opened and something like a large sheet being let down to earth by its four corners. 12 It contained all kinds of four-footed animals, as well as reptiles and birds. 13 Then a voice told him, “Get up, Peter. Kill and eat.â€
14 “Surely not, Lord!†Peter replied. “I have never eaten anything impure or unclean.â€
15 The voice spoke to him a second time, “Do not call anything impure that God has made clean.â€
16 This happened three times, and immediately the sheet was taken back to heaven.
as for figuratively or literal its a bit tricky because sometimes you need to know the how Hebrews/Jews speak and their customs. you may also consider how the Bible translator picks a word.
Example:
"Adam lay with his wife Eve" (Genesis 4:1)
or even Set "Knew" his wife.
it means they had sexual intercourse.
some are easy to determine that it is figurative.
example:
Mark 9
43“If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off; it is better for you to enter life crippled, than, having your two hands, to go into hell, into the unquenchable fire, 44[where THEIR WORM DOES NOT DIE, AND THE FIRE IS NOT QUENCHED.] 45“If your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off; it is better for you to enter life lame, than, having your two feet, to be cast into hell, 46[where THEIR WORM DOES NOT DIE, AND THE FIRE IS NOT QUENCHED.] 47“If your eye causes you to stumble, throw it out; it is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye, than, having two eyes, to be cast into hell, 48where THEIR WORM DOES NOT DIE, AND THE FIRE IS NOT QUENCHED.
simply to say you don't really have to literally cut off you hand or pluck your eyes but to imply avoid those things that causes you to sin.
example:
in OT eating pork is forbidden.
"And the swine, because it divideth the hoof, yet cheweth not the cud, it is unclean unto you: ye shall not eat of their flesh, nor touch their dead carcase." - Deuteronomy 14:8
but in the NT
Acts 10:9-16
9 About noon the following day as they were on their journey and approaching the city, Peter went up on the roof to pray. 10 He became hungry and wanted something to eat, and while the meal was being prepared, he fell into a trance. 11 He saw heaven opened and something like a large sheet being let down to earth by its four corners. 12 It contained all kinds of four-footed animals, as well as reptiles and birds. 13 Then a voice told him, “Get up, Peter. Kill and eat.â€
14 “Surely not, Lord!†Peter replied. “I have never eaten anything impure or unclean.â€
15 The voice spoke to him a second time, “Do not call anything impure that God has made clean.â€
16 This happened three times, and immediately the sheet was taken back to heaven.
as for figuratively or literal its a bit tricky because sometimes you need to know the how Hebrews/Jews speak and their customs. you may also consider how the Bible translator picks a word.
Example:
"Adam lay with his wife Eve" (Genesis 4:1)
or even Set "Knew" his wife.
it means they had sexual intercourse.
some are easy to determine that it is figurative.
example:
Mark 9
43“If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off; it is better for you to enter life crippled, than, having your two hands, to go into hell, into the unquenchable fire, 44[where THEIR WORM DOES NOT DIE, AND THE FIRE IS NOT QUENCHED.] 45“If your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off; it is better for you to enter life lame, than, having your two feet, to be cast into hell, 46[where THEIR WORM DOES NOT DIE, AND THE FIRE IS NOT QUENCHED.] 47“If your eye causes you to stumble, throw it out; it is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye, than, having two eyes, to be cast into hell, 48where THEIR WORM DOES NOT DIE, AND THE FIRE IS NOT QUENCHED.
simply to say you don't really have to literally cut off you hand or pluck your eyes but to imply avoid those things that causes you to sin.
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duduguin ilong mo. St. Aquinas has a genius level mind.VincH wrote:hindi ko pa nabasa yang mga yan. i add ko yan sa mga to-read list ko.@Vinch... I see you can quote most of the books from the Bible... I'd just like to ask if you have ever read other literature that leans towards Christianity such as Summa Theologiae by St. Thomas Aquinas (or just the quinque viae of it) or The Divine Comedy by Dante Alighieri...
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The Catholic Church teaches that we shouldn't resort to it, but at the same time leaves the possibility for it should it serve the greater good of mankind. For example, its not okay to kill one rapist, but its probably okay to kill someone like Hitler.Xezcente wrote:Guys, may tanong ako. What does the Bible or the Christian faith has to say on Death Penalty?
Simple curiosity.
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The problem here is we are not the keepers of knowledge. We do not know by ourselves. The folly of many modern protestant faiths is they think we by ourselves can discern the Bible. It is absolutely not true. Never in the history of the people of God that they took it upon themselves to interpret scripture by themselves. The Jews never did it, the early Christians never did it, why all of a sudden we are doing it today?kirsh_natural wrote: I have a question for believers: When reading the Bible, how do you know which ones are written figuratively or literally? Which ones are "dated" or "eternal"?
The knowledge is passed from one generation to the next. It is important to submit ourselves to our teachers. Many people in the Church, the monks, dedicate their entire lives to learning, retaining, then passing along the knowledge. Remember, Jesus himself established discipleship. He didn't hand the Apostles the Bible and told them to figure it out themselves. He sat and talked with them and taught them. Then the Apostles took upon their own disciples (Mark, Luke, etc.) whom they passed the faith down to. And it goes on and on to today.
So the question about understanding the Bible, should be directed to those who has received this knowledge. Our priests of today. They are the modern day apostles, the bishops are the modern day disciples.
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^i agree to a certain extent. yung vocabulary kasi nung unang panahon eh limited at yung pagka translate iba ang pagkaintindi nila from the original hebrew words. nagtataka nga ako bakit yung iba naghahanap ng mga bagong terms sa bible eh 2-3k years ago pa naisulat yun.
ganun ba? hindi ko na lang babasahinduduguin ilong mo. St. Aquinas has a genius level mind.
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may napanood akong replay ng debate about Eli Soriano and an atheist sa tv 2 days ago. hinanap ko sa youtube kung may naka upload. meron nga kaso di kumpleto.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXI59foy ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyy-HvwD ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSVqMbKr ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6GQf79R ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ra8N6v4o ... re=related
totoo ba yung claim ng atheist na 90% ng mga scientists eh atheists? base sa research ko eh sa american society of science lang yun pero overall hindi.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8916982/
totoo din ba na ang theory of evolution ay fact na?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXI59foy ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyy-HvwD ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSVqMbKr ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6GQf79R ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ra8N6v4o ... re=related
totoo ba yung claim ng atheist na 90% ng mga scientists eh atheists? base sa research ko eh sa american society of science lang yun pero overall hindi.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8916982/
totoo din ba na ang theory of evolution ay fact na?
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oo, nakalamutan ko yung article, may copy pa nga ako nung Watchtower, magazine ng mga Jehova's witness, 90's pa. they included that article there to inform their members. kaso tinapon ko na kasi nakatambak lang sa kwarto ko. may kaibigan akong kasali sa religion na yun. still they are creationists.
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May kasama ako sa church na Mathematician siya, does that count? May deboto pa kesa sa akin.VincH wrote:may napanood akong replay ng debate about Eli Soriano and an atheist sa tv 2 days ago. hinanap ko sa youtube kung may naka upload. meron nga kaso di kumpleto.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXI59foy ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyy-HvwD ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSVqMbKr ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6GQf79R ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ra8N6v4o ... re=related
totoo ba yung claim ng atheist na 90% ng mga scientists eh atheists? base sa research ko eh sa american society of science lang yun pero overall hindi.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8916982/
totoo din ba na ang theory of evolution ay fact na?
Malamang planted yang debate ni Soriano.
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hindi lang sa translation eh. words can be very limiting. puwede ako mag sabi ng isang sentence dito sa pinoyps, at may 100 people na magkakaroon ng 100 different interpretations kung ano talaga gusto ko sabihin. halimbawa yung paborito kong hirit na "hype lang yan". ano ba talaga ibig sabihin nun? siyempre ako lang makaka pag explain kung ano ibig ko sabihin, at kung sino lang sabihan ko siya lang makakaintindi. dapat yung pinagsabihan ko, sasabihin din sa iba. yung mga hindi nakatanggap ng paliwanag ko, hindi nila alam kung ano talaga gusto ko sabihin. chambahan na lang kung may makatamaVincH wrote:^i agree to a certain extent. yung vocabulary kasi nung unang panahon eh limited at yung pagka translate iba ang pagkaintindi nila from the original hebrew words. nagtataka nga ako bakit yung iba naghahanap ng mga bagong terms sa bible eh 2-3k years ago pa naisulat yun.
ganun ba? hindi ko na lang babasahinduduguin ilong mo. St. Aquinas has a genius level mind.
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tama, parang sa issue din ng slavery yan sa bible, minamasama ng iba pero walang masama doon and i can explain that.hindi lang sa translation eh. words can be very limiting. puwede ako mag sabi ng isang sentence dito sa pinoyps, at may 100 people na magkakaroon ng 100 different interpretations kung ano talaga gusto ko sabihin. halimbawa yung paborito kong hirit na "hype lang yan". ano ba talaga ibig sabihin nun? siyempre ako lang makaka pag explain kung ano ibig ko sabihin, at kung sino lang sabihan ko siya lang makakaintindi. dapat yung pinagsabihan ko, sasabihin din sa iba. yung mga hindi nakatanggap ng paliwanag ko, hindi nila alam kung ano talaga gusto ko sabihin. chambahan na lang kung may makatama
iba kasi ang level ng utak ng Diyos. kumbaga parang nagusap ang ordinaryong tao sa isang scientist or abugado. hindi agad maiintindihan ng ordinaryong tao kung ano ang ibig sabihin ng sinabi ng isang scientist or abugado.
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Ahhh... so they found the book that might be the one mentioned in Revelations...
If it is the mentioned book, this would lead to more speculation/fear about/or 2012...
But I am interested in these codices...
With volume at 10, reality is but a distant memory...
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why are we looking more towards these things? hindi pa ba tayo kuntento sa sinasabi ng Simbahan sa atin?zmed_08 wrote:Ahhh... so they found the book that might be the one mentioned in Revelations...
If it is the mentioned book, this would lead to more speculation/fear about/or 2012...
But I am interested in these codices...
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