[OT] The Order: 1886

[Solemn_In_Berlin]

This concept of living breathing world is a marketing tagline created by open world games. I don't buy that crap when you discuss atmosphere. Resident Evil 1 had great atmosphere and it felt as static as any game out there, same with Alien: Isolation and Dead Space. You don't need a 'living breathing world' for the atmosphere to be believable.

I will reserve further judgment when I have given the game more time and focus. You are correct in saying that the game's use of sound design is really great but with regards to static games like Alien: Isolation and the original Resident Evil, those games felt claustrophobic. In that sense, they can already be living, breathing worlds. It is not necessarily about meeting a lot of people or seeing the wind sway the grass; it's about telling a story or invoking a feeling through the presentation. The Order: 1886, being a cinematic game, is more than capable of doing so but for now, it's more shallow than immersive for me.

Regarding opinions, I find the "it's my opinion" argument a fallacy. And no, this is not sarcasm. I beg you to engage in discourse and debate with me. I would like to have a perspective that is whole and complete. It's my way of contributing to the growth of a medium that has played a huge part in defining my being.

No not really, you made that post when people have played the game for nearly half a week. Check the discussions on previous pages prior to your comment, people were discussing detailed impressions plenty.

1. Sadly, this looks to be the Lair of next-gen.
2. Who cares? Driveclub was received poorly and I still like it.
3. I guess an old-school TPS isn't gonna cut it anymore.
4. Reviews are unfair. The Order: 1886 is simply a victim of the need for multiplayer.
5. Who cares? I mean, look how good it looks!
6. Ready at Dawn should go back to portable games. I mean, they're not good enough for the AAA scene.
7. LOL at these complaints. The game runs well so what's the problem?
8. Meh. I believe in the quality of Playstation exclusives.

Admittedly, my phrasing was too radical and off-putting and I apologize for that. But with these (paraphrased) posts, I don't think I fabricated a story. Most of these comments are speculative or are just outright already making a statement even without properly playing the game (basing it on visuals, on faulty comparisons, on the industry's "expectations", etc.). I am not in any way insulting any of the people who made such comments. I am just showing that my own comments were not pulled out of thin air.

Again, I agree that the discourse got more insightful as everyone had more time to play with it but initially, there really was this feeling of denial. This was a game that was gonna score 9s and 10s (When I say this, I am referring to the expectations of every forum I frequent: Gamefaqs, NeoGAF, PinoyPS). This game seemed so significant pre-release. Then it flopped (in terms of critical reception, at least) and either it was treated as the representative of its genre (old-school TPS games don't work anymore) or a victim of "injustice" (Ready at Dawn called the critical body bullies). And so, I felt the need to make such comments. If I either spoke too soon or sounded arrogant, then I am sorry. But again, I'd like to think I was trying to help people accept what was happening (that the game just wasn't as good or as revolutionary as we all thought) and move on. Was it a mistake? I know not. But I tried to help, and that's enough for me.

[ron_bato]

I will reserve further judgment when I have given the game more time and focus. You are correct in saying that the game's use of sound design is really great but with regards to static games like Alien: Isolation and the original Resident Evil, those games felt claustrophobic. In that sense, they can already be living, breathing worlds. It is not necessarily about meeting a lot of people or seeing the wind sway the grass; it's about telling a story or invoking a feeling through the presentation. The Order: 1886, being a cinematic game, is more than capable of doing so but for now, it's more shallow than immersive for me.

Regarding opinions, I find the "it's my opinion" argument a fallacy. And no, this is not sarcasm. I beg you to engage in discourse and debate with me. I would like to have a perspective that is whole and complete. It's my way of contributing to the growth of a medium that has played a huge part in defining my being.

Why do I need to change your opinion? If you've played the game then that's more than enough reason for you to form an opinion on whatever you think about the games atmosphere. I'm not here to change your opinion. If you don't feel that way I don't mind. I told you the reasons why I disagree, what's more to say? You admitted to not giving the game the time it deserves so go play it yourself and decide for yourself.

I think your argument about the living breathing world for alien isolation and resident evil in comparison to the order is pretty weak. And up to this point you have not given me any semblance of a valid argument as to why you feel the game has a 'not great atmosphere' .

1. Sadly, this looks to be the Lair of next-gen.
2. Who cares? Driveclub was received poorly and I still like it.
3. I guess an old-school TPS isn't gonna cut it anymore.
4. Reviews are unfair. The Order: 1886 is simply a victim of the need for multiplayer.
5. Who cares? I mean, look how good it looks!
6. Ready at Dawn should go back to portable games. I mean, they're not good enough for the AAA scene.
7. LOL at these complaints. The game runs well so what's the problem?
8. Meh. I believe in the quality of Playstation exclusives.

Admittedly, my phrasing was too radical and off-putting and I apologize for that. But with these (paraphrased) posts, I don't think I fabricated a story. Most of these comments are speculative or are just outright already making a statement even without properly playing the game (basing it on visuals, on faulty comparisons, on the industry's "expectations", etc.). I am not in any way insulting any of the people who made such comments. I am just showing that my own comments were not pulled out of thin air.

Again, I agree that the discourse got more insightful as everyone had more time to play with it but initially, there really was this feeling of denial. This was a game that was gonna score 9s and 10s (When I say this, I am referring to the expectations of every forum I frequent: Gamefaqs, NeoGAF, PinoyPS). This game seemed so significant pre-release. Then it flopped (in terms of critical reception, at least) and either it was treated as the representative of its genre (old-school TPS games don't work anymore) or a victim of "injustice" (Ready at Dawn called the critical body bullies). And so, I felt the need to make such comments. If I either spoke too soon or sounded arrogant, then I am sorry. But again, I'd like to think I was trying to help people accept what was happening (that the game just wasn't as good or as revolutionary as we all thought) and move on. Was it a mistake? I know not. But I tried to help, and that's enough for me.

I literally read every comment in this thread looking for comment number 5 and I can't find it. Either you've taken liberties with paraphrasing (like how you paraphrased comment number 2 while leaving out the very important part about the game being fun. And he's basing his experience on wanting to play the game on playing a game rather than relying on reviews).

Like I said, those people who have played the game have given insightful comments. For people that didn't they're going to make generalizations. It's the nature of criticism especially when you have not played the game yet. Your comment on people making comments on graphics and not much else seemed like a poor generalization in a thread where people were willing to talk about what the game did well or what it did poorly.

Some people were hoping that the game would score 9 or 10 (because really, who hopes for a game to be bad?), but if you've followed the pre-release narrative about the order, some people were not high on the game and there was a lot of negativity around it. I was hoping it would be one of the PS4's great early games, and I had fun even though it has its flaws, but it turned out to be a solid, if not disappointing game depending on who you ask.

[Solemn_In_Berlin]

Why do I need to change your opinion? If you've played the game then that's more than enough reason for you to form an opinion on whatever you think about the games atmosphere. I'm not here to change your opinion. If you don't feel that way I don't mind. I told you the reasons why I disagree, what's more to say? You admitted to not giving the game the time it deserves so go play it yourself and decide for yourself.

I think your argument about the living breathing world for alien isolation and resident evil in comparison to the order is pretty weak. And up to this point you have not given me any semblance of a valid argument as to why you feel the game has a 'not great atmosphere' .

I never said you needed to. I just said I would appreciate it. To word it better, I am not forcing you to change my opinion. It's just that I've been in ome too many debates that didn't end well for some reason. As in, I was just presenting my claim when the person I'm engaging in the debate with responds with "Well you suck and you can take your opinion with you when you jump off the cliff." Not to say that that is where this particular debate is going, but yeah. I'm just taking precautions. I've had one too many arguments that "escalated too quickly" so to speak.

Well, the atmosphere per se is really good but it's really hard to judge it on its own. I just feel like all that film grain, great use of sound, and cinematic experience are spoiled by the many QTEs, constraints set on interaction, and overall repetitiveness. To me, the flaws in game design affect the presentation too much for them to be judged separately. They feel too lazy to the point of that they are starting to ruin the immersion, at least for me. This is a game after all, not a movie.

But like I said the people that did play gave insightful comments.

I mentioned that in my reply. I've no need to dispute that claim. I am merely saying that before that, there was also a bevy of comments that hinged on prejudgment rather than actual analysis.

[ron_bato]

I never said you needed to. I just said I would appreciate it. To word it better, I am not forcing you to change my opinion. It's just that I've been in ome too many debates that didn't end well for some reason. As in, I was just presenting my claim when the person I'm engaging in the debate with responds with "Well you suck and you can take your opinion with you when you jump off the cliff." Not to say that that is where this particular debate is going, but yeah. I'm just taking precautions. I've had one too many arguments that "escalated too quickly" so to speak.

Well, the atmosphere per se is really good but it's really hard to judge it on its own. I just feel like all that film grain, great use of sound, and cinematic experience are spoiled by the many QTEs, constraints set on interaction, and overall repetitiveness. To me, the flaws in game design affect the presentation too much for them to be judged separately. They feel too lazy to the point of that they are starting to ruin the immersion, at least for me. This is a game after all, not a movie..

Begging me to engage you in discourse does not sound like 'I would appreciate it'. That being said, my point is if you've played enough of the game to make a judgement on a subjective part of the game, why do I need to exhaust my effort in trying to change the way you feel about the game when you know enough from your own experience where you stand? I've already gone in length in describing why I felt the game has great atmosphere, even posting two screenshots as to why I think those elements come together. I don't need to get in a long drawn out argument over something that is very subjective and could change from person to person.

However, you say that a game like Tomb Raider has great atmosphere, when that game is littered by QTEs, similar constraints on interaction, the same standard repetitive cover based third person shooting gameplay, and enemy AI which I can only describe as being par for the course in any TPS game. Even worse is the immersion breaking poor characterization of the main character, stereotypical characters and subpar voice acting for the most part.

They may have made some decisions which broke your immersion in the game, but it doesn't take away from the game's atmosphere that they crafted. Atmosphere, voice acting, dialogue, and believability of characters, along with gameplay mechanics all contribute to the overall feeling of immersion. But not being immersed in the game because of some gameplay decisions does not take away from the atmosphere and world that Ready at Dawn built. Immersion does not equal atmosphere, atmosphere is one of the key elements that build immersion. The presence of button prompts, tutorial text, the HUD all take away from the feeling of immersion of the game, but it does not take away from the atmosphere.

In other words, for an individual to be immersed in a game, a great atmosphere is required. But if you are not immersed in a game because some other factor that contributes to immersion (in this case for you the QTEs), it does not mean the atmosphere is not good.

[xgh0st12x]

^
Just my 2 cents - i think that you both have some different yet very well expresssed, justifiable and agreeable points about this game. I also think that you both appreciate and have your own qualms about the title; just from differing perspectives. Either way, both are very insightful.

[VsAssassin]

Yeah. I agree with xgh0st12x. I myself, now that I've played at least four chapters of the game, am starting to see both of your points. I'll play some more and give my own opinion of the game.

[Solemn_In_Berlin]

Seeing as how the other posters consider both perspectives as being valid, I feel no need to extend the debate. I am just happy to see that what I said gave insight to others.

Begging me to engage you in discourse does not sound like 'I would appreciate it'.

I honestly did not know that this would be the case. Given my background, I would expect that anyone would enjoy being in discourse. Debate for me is a very healthy and very delightful thing to do. An opinion is not absolute for me; it is constantly being shaped and interrogated. I recognized your perspicacity, hence my behest for discourse. I really appreciated everything that you had to say. That being said, I apologize if I seemed rude to you. I did not mean to force you into anything.

[VsAssassin]

Ah basta, everyone is entitled to their opinion. However, I must admit that there are opinions that are baseless and just blatantly deface the game.

As for me, I bought the game because I wanted to see for myself if the gaming websites that gave this game 1s and 2s are correct. Well they're not. This game is not a 9 or 10, but it definitely does not fall below the 6/10 mark. The Order 1886 has a lot of potential and I'm glad I bought into it.

Sequel pa more.

[atabspunk]

To be honest medyo boring yung simula nung nakilaro ako nito, pero pagdating ko dito nawala na yung antok ko haha...


Trophy hunt soon... lol.

[ron_bato]

To be honest medyo boring yung simula nung nakilaro ako nito, pero pagdating ko dito nawala na yung antok ko haha...


Trophy hunt soon... lol.

The prologue and first chapter had pacing issues. But I thought the intro was well done and provided a good 'holy sh**' moment.

The Mayfair chapter didn't really do anything for me (but I did enjoy listening to the ambient dialogue from the citizens in the area), but Chapters 3-5 were pretty good. After that Chapter 9 na favorite ko.

PS The thermite rifle is a beast of a gun. In terms of my favorite TPS guns, it probably goes something like Thermite Rifle > Lancer Assault Rifle > Plasma Cutter (Dead Space).

[atabspunk]

Hindi na ako umabot sa Chapter 9, late night ko na kase naabutan ito, pero na-appreciate ko pa naman yung environment tulad ng historical significance ng painting na ito sa chapter 2 ata ito lol


So far yung thermite rifle pa lang trip ko tsaka yung shotgun, kapag blacksight lagi bang baril? pansin ko laging ganun eh.

[ron_bato]

^ Yup yung blacksight pang baril lang, although may blacksight moments taken in the form of QTEs.

I did wish na hindi auto lock yung black sight, and sometimes masyado malapit sa character model yung camera pag nag blacksight ka. Misan di mo mapansin yung magagandang animation during blacksight dahil dun.

For example:



and

[atabspunk]

Mukha nga, mahirap nga din siguro kung may blacksight yung ibang mga baril.

[VsAssassin]

So far, the pacing issues of the first few chapters aside, nadayaan ako sa Chapters 5 and 6. Those who have finished the game would know what I mean. Anyway, Chapter 7 na!

[ron_bato]

So far, the pacing issues of the first few chapters aside, nadayaan ako sa Chapters 5 and 6. Those who have finished the game would know what I mean. Anyway, Chapter 7 na!

Do you mean from a story standpoint or a gameplay standpoint? May madadaya kasi na kalaban sa game eh Yung shotgunners in particular, lalo na pag naka knight armor sila. Ilan beses ako namamatay sa mga yun (hard mode, aim assist off)

[Lirgota]

I hate those armored goons. Minsan walang tabla yung tama ko sa kanila. Tapos sabay pa sa horde of soldiers.

[xgh0st12x]

Head-Syat ang solution sa mga yan.

If they make a sequelmto this game, id love to fight some vamps this time around.

[ron_bato]

Head-Syat ang solution sa mga yan.

If they make a sequelmto this game, id love to fight some this time around.

Spoiler alert!! I edit na yan! Haha

Pero oo complete revamp ng half breed combat dapat (and more in terms of quantity and variety). Regardless of what type of half breed.

[VsAssassin]

So far, the pacing issues of the first few chapters aside, nadayaan ako sa Chapters 5 and 6. Those who have finished the game would know what I mean. Anyway, Chapter 7 na!

Do you mean from a story standpoint or a gameplay standpoint? May madadaya kasi na kalaban sa game eh Yung shotgunners in particular, lalo na pag naka knight armor sila. Ilan beses ako namamatay sa mga yun (hard mode, aim assist off)

I mean sa length and presentation. Parang yung 2 chapters - chapters 5 and 6 - natapos without real gameplay. Lol!

[ron_bato]

I forgot what chapter 6 is but I thought chapter 5 had good gameplay variety and was the longest in terms of length of gameplay sections (chapter 3,9 and 11 being other chapters with substantial gameplay). But you are right some chapters are bad in terms of being too uneven.